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Breach of Privacy

Displaying birthdays on the front page is a breach of personal privacy to which I strongly object. Please do not include my birth-date in this feature - if you do I shall consider taking legal action.

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deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-10 @ 06:05

Menhir has been posting about this too. I think it is a breach of out TOS and certainly an ill thought out action which many would object to. Why not make it an option for us to choose ?

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-10 @ 07:49

Yes, it was menhir's posting that brought it to my attention - (thanks menhire)

pollygarterpollygarter [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 06:30

I agree that this is inappropriate and should only be done as option if wanted.

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-10 @ 07:51

So long as the option belongs to the person with the birthday, not just a user choice for the layout of their "My blog.co.uk" page.

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-10 @ 11:00

I'd like to express my agreement with those above in that revealing one's date of birth should be the choice of the person concerned. James Lindow.

menhirmenhir [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 11:10

IDO NOT WANT MY PRIVATE DATA PUBLICISED TO THIRD PARTIES - I DO NOT WANT MY BIRTHDAY PUT ON THE BLOG SITE PAGE; IT IS A BREACH OF MY PRIVACY.

Blog D.E. is breaching their own Terms of Service, see Section 3. Link to Terms of service (from Life's Lessons)

http://www.blog.co.uk/srv/company/company.php?p=tos

Blog D.E. is passing out our personal data to third parties without permission, data which has been given in trust on the basis that our privacy would be respected as per international and national agreements.

The European Community of which Germany is a core member, has data protection laws defined, Blog D.E. is breaching those laws as well.

We should not be put in a position where we should have to choose to opt in and out of misuse of our private data. Our privacy should be respect per se and the giving of our private and personal information must be treated with honesty, decency and respect. Blog D.E. has failed on all these counts.

Intellectual Property Rights now appear to be an issue here with the wholesale publishing of bloggers' media. If the media has been uploaded onto the site and marked as private, then it should remain private and not published until the blog member has permitted the media to be placed in the public domain.

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-10 @ 11:15

I would like to endorse menhir's wording of this complaint and request that the blog service suppliers take note of this.

[Visitor]
http://bloggitygoodness.blog.ca
2007-09-10 @ 11:19

And I would like to endorse menhir's wording of this complaint as well.

RampageRampage team
2007-09-10 @ 11:57

The birthday calendar was added as a response to wishes of our bloggers. Of course we cannot satisfy the wishes of every individual blogger, so we listen to what the majority wants. In responding to the desires of the majority, it is possible that in so doing we upset a minority.

We would like to remind you that the birthday calendar is strictly a friends-only feature - only the people you choose as friends will see your birthday. And user ages have always been displayed on the 'Users online' box. Of course, you can select a fake birth date if you wish.

Birthday reminders are an integral part of almost all of the major internet communities - mySpace, bebo, etc all have them. We, like the aforementioned communities, feel that it is a useful tool in creating a friendlier community atmosphere.

At the moment the birthday reminders are not optional, however since there are some bloggers who do not like it, the tech team has informed me that it will be optional at some point in the future. However we cannot give a specific timeframe for this.

We apologise for the inconvenience caused.

la_spicela_spice [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 12:30

I'd like to agree with my blogfriends and add the following:

The point that it is a friends only feature is fine but think it through - someone notes a friends birthday - innocently sends a public greeting and voila!

The point that "the birthday calendar was added as a response to wishes of our bloggers" - what percentage of bloggers have requested this facility?

Finally - real friends let each other know when it's their birthday if and when they want to thus creating the "friendlier community atmosphere" of their own choosing!

Marian Barker (aka La_spice)

RampageRampage team
2007-09-10 @ 12:50

Like I said, it will be an option sometime in the future. In the meantime, you can just choose a fake birth date.

As for the percentage, I don't have access to that sort of information, but rest assured that it was enough for the powers that be to approve it.

menhirmenhir [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 19:38

Are you really asking us to contravene the regulations that we signed into and provide false information - that is disgraceful! This is an amazingly incompetent proposal.

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-10 @ 20:53

In my opinion blog.de and blog.co.uk have broken the privacy code and possibly European law. The suggestion of making this feature an option some time in the future is not good enough. You should disable the birthday calendar code as from now. That is with immediate effect.

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-11 @ 12:50

I hope you have taken note of all the people that say your response is not enough and that the birthday calendar should be ceased at once.

MrFlightyMrFlighty [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 13:42

Please note that selecting a fake birth date that would be contravening Blog.co.uk's Terms of Service 3)Personal Data where it states that '...submitting proper, lawful and true data' and '...abides to maintain his personal data up to date and accurate'

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-10 @ 14:35

Good point and as I said above I believe that the disclosure of people's birth dates (without their agreement) is also a violation of the TOS. I personally don't consider the answer from Admin satisfactory and it is not a trivial issue, but typical of how things are implemented here with no consultation. Vasco says this will change in the future - we will see.

menhirmenhir [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 19:36

Birth date being *eventually optional* does not deal with the issue, it sidelines our genuine concerns.

1. There should be no *eventual* about it, that is unacceptable - what kind of time scale is that? If we accept that as a default position we give up our personal data protection rights by default too and that is not an option.

2. Our rights to privacy should not have been touched in the first place so opting in or out is also unacceptable.

3. We signed into a contract with accords with the data protection terms of the E.U. as much as here at home in the U.K. that no personal/private data will be passed to third parties.

4. Now you are choosing to override our rights and wishes to privacy. I am not giving you permission to give my personal information out to anyone, and that includes people on my friends list.

Your "suggestion" is unacceptable.

The birthdays issue could cause a problem, but one thing that has always bothered me is the ability to import your email address book and instantly see if anyone in it has a blog. I know for a fact people have found me.

What actually annoys me even more is that when I tried this feature without really knowing what it was, I found the blog of a colleague, and I think she'd me horrified if she knew.

We should be able to opt out of appearing in this list.

All seems to be a pretty major over-reaction to me, and this is coming from someone who doesn't like celebrating his birthday and hides it as much as possible.

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-10 @ 13:15

totally agree Andy - all this ranting and bile isn't helpful. Its a community for everyone, including the BCUK team, if we all work together, suggesting improvements in a constructive manner, then the whole thing improves in a positive and organic way.

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-10 @ 18:06

Proper consultation is not a trivial matter - the BCUK team should consult in advance before making changes. In any case it wouldn't surprise me if only one or two people had asked for the birthday feature - which I would class as a minority request.

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-10 @ 18:09

rant, wail, threaten, whatever..knock yourself out. Its your ulcer, not mine.

menhirmenhir [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 19:23

MDAE your response to Munzly is surprising. He has made genuinely fair points as have other people.

No it is not an over-reaction. If you wish to give away your own privacy you may do so, no-one is stopping you however, there are a large number of people who do not wish to go down that route and their wishes should be respected.

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-10 @ 20:45

My dear MadDogs+Englishmen, I am simply presenting my viewpoint in a perfectly calm and considered way - if and when I RANT then you will know because your screen will melt and your mouse will tear itself free and go hide in the toilet.

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-10 @ 22:22

charming.

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-10 @ 13:19

I wish to remain as anon as possible, so if there is a breach of personal privacy....then please remove me from this list.
As for it being a `friends only` feature...not so long ago all my `friends only` posts were made public for all to see.....leaving me with no alternative but to close my blog and re set up!

This is all very upsetting - that there are so many things to get worked up about such a trivial thing. I can't quite believe that this is what bothers some people.

Are there not other things to be angry about?

Is the world so perfect that a person's only concern is this?

Seems a little strange.

Tomorrow's the anniversary of 9/11 - how about thinking of that when you're kicking off about something so ridiculously trivial as this?

It makes me worry for the future of mankind.

I really don't see how it is helpful to remind people that are getting very upset about people knowing how old they are about the deaths of thousands of people. That seems just as unneccessarily dramatic.

Just a thought.

I was just making people realise that we need to look at things in perspective.

It is not a big deal. Is it?

I think threats of legal action are a little extreme, yes.

I think it's the fact that BCUK have not automatically made it an opt in/out feature. You could choose whether or not to put it your age on your profile. N

Now I know the birthdays of 3 people are coming up, and I find it a little odd, and I think I would be pissed off it it was my birthday coming up and I couldn't turn it off.

Only so many times you can say thank you to birthday comments :)

You could always blog on your birthday - "thanks in advance for any comments wishing me a happy birthday, I am not blogging today as I am too busy opening all my wonderful presents."

I think the older we get the more we wish we could turn our birthday off.

all the best to you.

hektor

But they won't know how old you are, it only shows the date not the year. Anyway, all people's ages (unless you lie) are shown after the symbol in the 'who's online' status. So it's been there since the beginning.

Is the problem that people know the date of your birthday or people knowing how old you are?

But the identity theft thing is a possible problem, I concur.

Is it true that people can get your e-mail address from BCUK? I thought that was meant to be private if you tick the box that says only you can see it. ?

MoonBunnyMoonBunny [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 17:05

It may not matter to some people, in which case the outcome is not of too much importance. But as a blogger, maintaining my anonymity is of utmost importance to me. I do not wish anyone I know to recognise my writing style and use of language, as well as events in my life, and then have it confirmed to them that I am the blogger they suspect when they see my birth date.
Legal action may be a little extreme at the present time, but if this continues or there are further breaches I think they need to be reprimanded.

MoonBunnyMoonBunny [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 17:05

It may not matter to some people, in which case the outcome is not of too much importance the them individually. But as a blogger, maintaining my anonymity is of utmost importance to me. I do not wish anyone I know to recognise my writing style and use of language, as well as events in my life, and then have it confirmed to them that I am the blogger they suspect when they see my birth date.
Legal action may be a little extreme at the present time, but if this continues or there are further breaches I think they need to be reprimanded.

EthelRedEthelRed [Member]
2007-09-10 @ 17:13

If people know your age and birthday from using this site then they can work out your date of birth. I would never dream of giving out my date of birth on-line and I do not want blog.co.uk doing it for me! I want to opt out of this feature. I know Rampage says we will have this option in future but it would be helpful to know when, please.

I also disagree with the idea of giving a fake birth date - why should I have to lie?

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-10 @ 18:14

Ethelred makes a good point, birth-dates are often used as part of logging in procedures and should be kept private to avoid identity theft.

cc0028cc0028 [Member]
http://www.peredur.uklinux.net
2007-09-10 @ 18:27

Just adding my agreement with all that's been said.

Peter

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-11 @ 12:21

Munzly's last is the point I was about to make.

I am not angry but I think it was presumptuous to make a change of this kind without PRIOR consultation.

I don't care who knows how old I am in general but I do not want my actual birthday publicised any more than my mother's maiden name. Both are routes to my bank, insurance and other financial matters. We are frequently told to take care of out personal details because of a growing problem with identity fraud. The web is littered with cheap crims on the lookout for this kind of information: if they can get a date-of-birth linked with an email-address they are up and running.

I also tire of being lectured about what I may regard as matters of concern. I am able to have more than one thought or feeling at a time and, while I recognise world starvation and environmental break-down as the major problems of our day, I believe that my personal liberty of opinion includes the freedom to worry about identity theft, bad train services and all the myriad other 'small' problems that can afflict ordinary, boring, little lives like mine if I so choose, even if they are not fashionably political.

I also wish that this site could be left alone for a while. We have worked with previous changes but, as somebody else remarked, this latest re-working is neither attractive nor user-friendly. Add in the illicit use of private details and I think there is room for complaint.

Still not angry. Pulse 71, BP 126/81.

RampageRampage team
2007-09-11 @ 12:44

We've just had a chat about this issue in blog HQ. We're all pretty upset that our intentions to improve blog.co.uk for everyone have resulted in such anger and disappointment from some of our bloggers. As you hopefully are all aware, it was certainly not our intention to upset anyone.

We will change this birthday reminders so that they are optional for all users.

MrFlightyMrFlighty [Member]
2007-09-11 @ 15:08

What about your comment that said for people to use a fake birth date ? Not only does it contravene the Terms of Service but you are encouraging people to be dishonest and lie!

Don't get your knickers in such a twist - the people that run this site (and who work bloody hard at it too) have made the changes to stop this little tantrum - perhaps it is time to move on?

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-11 @ 20:35

Don't be so hectoring, Hektor.

RampageRampage team
2007-09-12 @ 09:09

it will be an option sometime in the future. In the meantime, you can just choose a fake birth date.

I suggested it as a temporary solution to the problem. When the birthday reminders are optional, please return it to your real DOB.

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-11 @ 15:16

The lesson you at Blog-central should learn is that prior consultation is not only good manners, but the happiest way to do things for all parties.

These people at "Blog-Central" run a site - they are not your personal staff.

I think you've used a sledge hammer to crack a nut with this issue - a few private messages might have got the same result, and might have got a few less people's backs up at the same time.

But that's not some people's style, is it?

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-11 @ 20:33

I think you'll find that we used exactly the right amount to get the desired result.

I think you all went a little over the top.

How exceptionally arrogant a statement that is...

The blog owners here don't need overexcessive force or ill-thought out legal threats, they simply need to be made aware of the desires of their fellow bloggers, note I said fellow bloggers, not masters.

On more than one occasion changes have been made from a simple PM or a post which is written in the correct style, making a suggestion, not bullishly informing them they should do as you wish.

Your attitude was deplorable and simply goes to show those who shout and stamp their feet may end up on the winning side but still achieve a loss of respect from those around them.

subvillesubville [Member]
http://subville.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-12 @ 15:54

I so agree.

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-12 @ 17:58

what an incredibly rude and arrogant statement that is.

menhirmenhir [Member]
2007-09-12 @ 17:48

Hektor you have hectored in complete ignorance. I did try a few personal emails which were totally ignored. Please check out your facts before you pontificate. The majority of people on this blogsite, including those people who have remonstrated in this forum, are reasonable well-mannered and thoughtful people and you should take note of that.

Dear Menhir,

A couple of few points, if I may:

1. I was responding to the rather absurd statement left my Muzly (and his subsequent statements). Later in my comments, I took the facts as I saw them, which was, as I saw it, people being rather aggressive about a rather trivial issue. None of the correspondents has, to my recollection, stated "I tried to PM the blog people..." etc. etc. How do you know that your emails were ignored? Was there a message to that effect? How much time did you give for a response.

2. I am not pontificating, just stating a view. The (over) reaction was completely disproportionate.

It seems we have a different view as to what "well-mannered" and "thoughtful" means. I like the Hektor/hectoring thing, by the way - it was used already in these comments, so is not original, but anyway, my compliments.

Kind regards.

Hektor.

menhirmenhir [Member]
2007-09-12 @ 18:34

Originality was not my main aim in commenting to you. My compliments to you Hektor on your command of the English language, it is impressive.

On many counts you have been incorrect in your statement. You are entitled to your view of triviality and your perspective on manners, just as we are entitled to our views and perspectives, which we as a blog community have raised.

Best wishes.

MandarijnMandarijn [Member]
2007-09-11 @ 16:43

I use the birth dates/ages so I can choose the age group of people I DON'T want to associate with. It helps in that way I suppose.
On the other hand, by viewing someone's blog, you can perceive whether the blogger is someone who might be too young, too old, too boring, too political, (same thing) too controversial or just not your tripe...ooops sorry...type. Then you make the choice whether to add them to your friends list and then you can reveal your actual age, but only if you want to.
But at least give us the choice.

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-13 @ 07:04

Curiously, I also tend to avoid blogs where too much emphasis is put on cute pets, which,, I suppose, makes me a "Petist" but from what you say it seems you may be a bit of an "Ageist" ;)

jaketaylorjaketaylor pro
2007-09-11 @ 21:49

i think someone should return the rattle to the pram :D

now cast that stone people.....

dazajndazajn [Member]
2007-09-12 @ 14:23

I wonder if blog implementors would consider help in such cases. Is it open code?

MandarijnMandarijn [Member]
2007-09-12 @ 23:35

Miaow

MunzlyMunzly [Member]
http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
2007-09-13 @ 07:02

Now that an extra right has been achieved for us bloggers, perhaps you should purrrrrr :)

MandarijnMandarijn [Member]
2007-09-13 @ 19:44

Yeah...purrrr, but I'm not ageist, just don't want to have a tête-a-tête with someone who puts any old age down (as suggested by the Admin) only to find out it's a 14 year old schoolgirl. Not my scene, went past the schoolgirl scene as I left school.

deleted user [Visitor]

2007-09-17 @ 00:11

What a lot of fuss you've all kicked up!
This thing about birthdays is not something to get your knickers in a twist about, it's harmless, surely.
So what if somebody knows your birthday, it's not important either way. I don't give a shite myself.

Now go on, have a go at me for saying that.

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